Junia

Disgusting aspects of the fetish (and the people who like them)

69 posts in this topic

Blue is very, very heavily moderated, which has many pro's for making it into a safe space. However, I also think there's a lot of tone policing and silencing going on. A lot of people have been generally gross human beings on here without teeeechnically breaking the rules, so they get away with it, but dissenters tend to get wrist slaps for bitching anywhere outside the Snake Pit.

Except for the fact that "generally gross human beings" is a subjective judgement. There's a distinct irony in talking about "tone policing" when one at least appears to be essentially complaining about a lack of free rein to do something similar to ensure that the "tone" of the forum meets one's own standards. Having spent a lot of time on the staff here I can vouch for some very difficult judgement calls that were made where personal distaste had to be set aside because ultimately, yes, I believe that everyone does deserve the same protection as long as they obey the rules of the forum, rules which have been very carefully drafted and where any change is subject to long, quite intense discussion. If it were otherwise, you risk ending up with a situation where the majority have carte blanche to dogpile the minority. Also, a "gloves are off" forum is offered right here, I don't think it is at all unreasonable to apply the rules outside of the pit when it is quite clearly stated that people can speak as freely as they like within it, only limited by the broadest parameters.

If you're (and this is a general you here, actually) totally cool with people posting obs of unconscious people and shit like that, even when it doesn't break the rules, you're probably the one with the bigger problem, not me

One doesn't have to be totally cool with that sort of thing, in fact I personally would argue that it breaks the illegal activity rule in several ways, but there are two ways offered to bring this to the staff's attention, either a report or saying whatever you like about how you feel about it in the Snake Pit.

What happened to the old days when people had the right to call out obvious grossness without being slapped on the hand for being too mean or too rude or less than pleasant to members with clearly disgusting tendencies? The pedophiles, for one? Oh, I am so sorry that I told a man who has sexual thoughts of little girls that he is a disgusting pervert. Get a fucking grip.

As far as I recall, this was never the case, and I'm damn glad about it. For one thing pedophilia is illegal and covered quite comprehensively by rules number 3 and 4 and anything against these rules that still appears only does so on the basis that a moderator might not have seen it yet. Instead of starting a dogpile, it's surely better to report - especially given that unless anything has changed, it's generally standard procedure to hide posts that are under discussion for breaking the rules.

Ultimately everyone who posts here, though, has signed up to obey the rules, and like it or not one of those rules is that, outside of the snake pit one has to remain civil and respectful. If you can't obey that, warnings, whether formal or informal aren't "tone policing", they're regular policing and completely bloody well justified at that in my opinion.

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Enkidom, thank you so much for being the voice of reason in this nonsense.

Everyone, including me, has been gut-reacting all over this matter without thinking clearly for even one second (with the exception of TheOtherGuy and SexualOddity, who were reasonable too), and I suggest we stop doing that and turn our ratio and common sense back on...

ETA: ...outside of the Pit. Let this just be a gut-reaction bitchfest. We seem to need it. But Enkidom is still the only one who makes any sense here.

Edited by Maru-chan

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But Enkidom is still the only one who makes any sense here.

:lol1:

I can't stop laughing because it's so not true! Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. You do really have an air of holier-than-thou holy shit. So many people on this thread, especially the OP, have made extremely valid points and if you can't see that, that's your problem. Not theirs. Literally. You're not about to change anyone's opinions, probably, so I'd suggest that you realize that people differ from you and that's okay but please stop trying to tell people what to do especially since you're not on the staff.

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As far as I recall, this was never the case, and I'm damn glad about it. For one thing pedophilia is illegal and covered quite comprehensively by rules number 3 and 4 and anything against these rules that still appears only does so on the basis that a moderator might not have seen it yet. Instead of starting a dogpile, it's surely better to report - especially given that unless anything has changed, it's generally standard procedure to hide posts that are under discussion for breaking the rules.

How many times have you seen an adult (usually over age 40) talk about enjoying children's sneezes? How is that not pedophilia? And it doesn't get warned or removed. There have been threads about this, too, and nothing has been done. Why isn't it okay to publicly shame something like this? Why is it cool to have our forum look like it enables pedophilia and other predatory behavior? At best, reporting gets the posts warned/hidden, but seriously, how much do those posters really learn from that?

It doesn't make the shitty sharky behaviour okay, but if we're linking that behaviour to that aspect of the fetish, I think it does beg the question, "Is there another reason for this beyond 'crappy people like smelling sneezes'".

Even if this is true, like you said, it acts as an explanation and not an excuse. Even if they were "driven to predatory behavior", so to speak, how does that make the predatory behavior okay? They're allowed to talk about how much they like huffing sneezes as much as I'm allowed to talk about why I think it's gross (and just because someone else already said they think it's gross doesn't mean I can't chime in as well).

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At best, reporting gets the posts warned/hidden, but seriously, how much do those posters really learn from that?

Probably about as much as they'd learn from having a lot of random strangers mouthing off at them, however it's not just warnings, there are a lot of additional sanctions. You also ignore the basic point I made that you actually CAN publicly shame people here if you wish. You just should do so in the correct forum and understand that there is also right of reply.

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Just saying... the number of years that Dom has been around and the number of years that he **has** been on Staff, in addition to general intelligence and even-handedness- I would say at least qualifies a hearing-out.

The reporting thing. One of the facts that *may* not be being remembered is that Staff doesn't go and tell everyone all the repercussions of reported posts. If a person doesn't learn from them, there can and have been people booted from the forum. You might not agree on all the decisions. I might not agree with all of them. But now that I'm again not on Staff I can't in fairness say that I know all or any of the backstory with certain things.

I haven't been around in a while so I'm not up to date on all the posts and everything.

I don't understand why things like "disgusting" posts and sharking are being lumped together. Two different issues to me. You can get turned on by all the "right" stuff and still be a creep. I don't really analyse what people who generally like something that I'm not into like or what they normally do, etc. If there is a post that is clearly labeled with something that I'm not into "mother's sneezing" or "smelly sneezes" - or on the off chance that I recognise a poster who tends to really like one of those things that I personally aren't into- I just avoid it. There is always the block function.

Also, "sharking" and potentially predatory advances on u18s (esp. young teens) are separate too. One is the person who uses bad pick up lines at a bar. The other, you don't bring around children to be on the safe side.

With certain things that people are into- I might think "ewww" , but then again, I've had someone think that about what *I'm* into, soo.... With certain things I might even question if the person is a troll, but I don't really know.

I like keeping the snarking to one spot personally.

Also, people have tiptoed up to the line but still *technically* not crossed it with a LOT of different things, "sharking", "snarking",, "creeping", "trolling" - etc, etc.

Anyway... my 2 cents- not that they matter. As you were.

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I have never ever smelled a sneeze! They have a scent?? Weird.

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It seems to me that this topic started with complaining about a topic that a number of people aren't into and then branched off into the argument that all people with that interest are disgusting mostly because of this one observation which I agree is questionable, however, this should not reflect on the whole subgroup of members. Yes, the idea of smelling sneezes makes my skin crawl, no, I'm not going to judge people who like that sort of thing merely based on that or completely threadjack a topic to express my disgust.

And honestly, as SexualOddity said: if you're going to essentially dogpile on a group of people, I can't blame them for not acting friendly to you.

Reading all previous posts, I feel that the same argument is put up time after time again by a number of people, but repeating it again and again doesn't make it more true or right, it makes you sound like a broken record.

If you don't like the way the staff deals with rule-breaking: tough luck. Open a civil discussion or shut up (or, of course, whine about it in the Snake Pit). If you see something you feel is inappropriate, report it. The staff does not engage in naming and shaming, so, as people have said before, you won't always see how things are dealt with. I will have to reiterate Dom's response here:

At best, reporting gets the posts warned/hidden, but seriously, how much do those posters really learn from that?

Probably about as much as they'd learn from having a lot of random strangers mouthing off at them, however it's not just warnings, there are a lot of additional sanctions. You also ignore the basic point I made that you actually CAN publicly shame people here if you wish. You just should do so in the correct forum and understand that there is also right of reply.

On another point, I have noticed that the people who complain the most about "tone-policing" seem to be the people who are least tolerant of any other opinion or viewpoint than theirs and claim they are "objectively" right in subjective circumstances.

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Why is protecting predators so important to you?

I'm not going to come back to this thread because I can see that there's a big emphasis on "difference of opinion" and "all opinions are equally valid". There are a lot of opinions that I do not respect (this has nothing to do with what people jack off to, by the way) because I absolutely believe that they contribute to the harm of vulnerable people.

This thread has derailed which like, this is the snake pit, whatever, let it happen. On the topic of reporting, the lack of transparency from staff is a huge issue and yeah, I understand respecting people's privacy and I'm not about to suggest that we implement a new way of running the forum. Staff has decided that rules are rules are rules and that's not going to change. I get it.

But certain incidences, such as sexual harassment/sharking or doxxing or whatever, IN MY OPINION (obviously, because I'm saying it in my post -- in my opinion in my opinion in my opinion, this is my opinion, this is how I feel, just so you guys know, I'm saying it as a statement of MY OPINION ONLY), the victim has a right to know what happened to their offender. This is more of an extreme example, but what if rape victims weren't told anything about their rapists after they were caught? Whether they went to jail, got a fine, or just got "talked to" by the police? Or if they were just let go completely? Imagine not knowing whether the authorities are on your side when it comes to matters of safety. Imagine if your peers or fellow citizens or whatever weren't even allowed to speak negatively of your rapist in public. It's disturbing.

I'm just talking about it. I'm not suggesting making any changes, because I know it's more important to some people for the forum to look nice than it is for it to actually be a nice place.

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Sen, at which point in my post did I mention *anything* about protecting predators? This is a point you seem to be coming back to time and time again whether or not it is relevant or true.

I do not propose protecting predators. If you present evidence of their predatory behaviour to the staff, they will take it very seriously and deliberate on what should be done as has been my experience when I was on the staff. People have been banned for predatory behaviour. I personally have banned people for predatory behaviour when I was on staff with staff consensus.

However, to come back to the point: please elaborate on why you believe I am a huge advocate for protecting predators?

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Why is protecting predators so important to you?

I'm not going to come back to this thread because I can see that there's a big emphasis on "difference of opinion" and "all opinions are equally valid". There are a lot of opinions that I do not respect (this has nothing to do with what people jack off to, by the way) because I absolutely believe that they contribute to the harm of vulnerable people.

This thread has derailed which like, this is the snake pit, whatever, let it happen. On the topic of reporting, the lack of transparency from staff is a huge issue and yeah, I understand respecting people's privacy and I'm not about to suggest that we implement a new way of running the forum. Staff has decided that rules are rules are rules and that's not going to change. I get it.

But certain incidences, such as sexual harassment/sharking or doxxing or whatever, IN MY OPINION (obviously, because I'm saying it in my post -- in my opinion in my opinion in my opinion, this is my opinion, this is how I feel, just so you guys know, I'm saying it as a statement of MY OPINION ONLY), the victim has a right to know what happened to their offender. This is more of an extreme example, but what if rape victims weren't told anything about their rapists after they were caught? Whether they went to jail, got a fine, or just got "talked to" by the police? Or if they were just let go completely? Imagine not knowing whether the authorities are on your side when it comes to matters of safety. Imagine if your peers or fellow citizens or whatever weren't even allowed to speak negatively of your rapist in public. It's disturbing.

I'm just talking about it. I'm not suggesting making any changes, because I know it's more important to some people for the forum to look nice than it is for it to actually be a nice place.

There is a huge difference, and one that the staff have always respected at least as far as I know, between a victim knowing what has happened with the person that they have made a complaint against (at least, as long as the complaint is upheld) and EVERYONE knowing. The decision to go public, then, as long as it is done within the rules, is essentially theirs. That strikes me as the basis of good governance.. And once again, because it seems to be a major point of misunderstanding, there is a place where one can say, pretty much within the limits of the law only, what one wants, and it's right here. It's bloody public enough...you don't even have to be a member to read the threads.

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Ummmmm.... I'm confused about the connection of people liking things like how sneezes smell, or if they like snot, or if the like family sneezes- and total creeper/ pedophilic behaviour. :huh:

It's just that the start of the thread was about the first part, it didn't completely tie-in (at least in my mind- which I might just be slow or stupid), and then it seems like now it is about if people and/or the whole of Staff are pro or anti- creepers.

**insert puzzled face here**

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I find the title of this topic interesting in its inaccuracy. We should really fix that, shouldn't we? Pray tell, what are the other disgusting aspects of our beloved fetish; and what about the people who like them? Don't hold back. Get it all out there. Come on, share your impeccable wisdom with us poor misguided souls.

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I read most of this thread, but I'm afraid my will to live disappeared somewhere in the middle. But- I wanted to give my opinion on the original topic.

My view is: if your problem is the fact that you find this aspect of the fetish gross, then swallow it, and ignore the topic. If it is in itself harmless, then we should not be too judgmental. For example, I like handkerchiefs- and I would not like to see them excluded from the forum, even if many of the forum's chattering classes find them gross (which many do).

However- if people have been posting obs that could be considered immoral (specifically, this paramedic posting an obs of an injured patient- which I have not seen but which has been mentioned in this thread) or if people are hounding members for further fetish details against their will- then the staff should mobilise! Warn them, ban them, whatever.

I do not want to be anti-staff... but my opinion is, in a lot of ways this forum is quite heavily moderated. We've been told in the past that the forum is not a democracy- and quite right too. They can ban who they wish to- so if someone is behaving immorally, warn or ban them. But not because they have a take on the fetish that many of us find distasteful. Let them have their very occasional thread for that.

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It seems to me like most of the fights in here come from the fact that two different issues have been raised by the original post:

1. Smelling sneezes: I think most of us agree it's not our cup of tea, but to each their own.

2. Sharking/Sexualizing people in danger: It seems like everyone agree that these are unacceptable.

So whenever someone in this thread says "to each their own" (or something similar), they don't mean "it's OK to let pervs shark on people or post an obs about a girl in danger of dying," they are only referencing the first issue that was raised, and they want to convey that everyone in here have different likes and dislikes, and it's impossible to unify the entire forum behind a set of "acceptable" fetish aspects, unless it contravenes to the rules (pedophilia, rape, etc.). "Smelling sneezes" doesn't hurt anyone (no matter how gross it is to most of us), and the poster acting like a shark falls into issue #2, not issue #1.

I think it's important to remember that people in this thread may not be talking about both issues at the same time.

Edited by Melondew

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It seems to me like most of the fights in here come from the fact that two different issues have been raised by the original post:

1. Smelling sneezes: I think most of us agree it's not our cup of tea, but to each their own.

2. Sharking/Sexualizing people in danger: It seems like everyone agree that these are unacceptable.

So whenever someone in this thread says "to each their own" (or something similar), they don't mean "it's OK to let pervs shark on people or post an obs about a girl in danger of dying," they are only referencing the first issue that was raised, and they want to convey that everyone in here have different likes and dislikes, and it's impossible to unify the entire forum behind a set of "acceptable" fetish aspects, unless it contravenes to the rules (pedophilia, rape, etc.). "Smelling sneezes" doesn't hurt anyone (no matter how gross it is to most of us), and the poster acting like a shark falls into issue #2, not issue #1.

I think it's important to remember that people in this thread may not be talking about both issues at the same time.

^ :yes: Thank you!

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Yeah, the focus of this thread shifted dramatically - that's the nature of the Snake Pit, so I'm not bothered at all, but I don't have the energy to chime in on the discussion it's turned into, so I'm largely tapping out of here. My original intent was just to vent/complain, and point out that there seems to be a weird cross-section of people who get off on niche things most people would find nasty who are also total assholes, and that's basically it. Not that I think the discussion this has turned into has no merit, but I can't wade into it now myself, so: as you were. (Not that my permission is needed, of course, but you know. :zippy: )

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I didn't even know about the "smelling sneezes" part and I'm already noping away over here.

nope_avi_high_resolution_by_wango911-d4j

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How many times have you seen an adult (usually over age 40) talk about enjoying children's sneezes? How is that not pedophilia? And it doesn't get warned or removed. There have been threads about this, too, and nothing has been done. Why isn't it okay to publicly shame something like this? Why is it cool to have our forum look like it enables pedophilia and other predatory behavior?

I'm not sure what you're referring to here but if there are threads like that sitting around that Staff isn't noticing, I'd encourage you to report them because discussion of anyone under 13 sneezing is pretty much a no-go here in anything more than a brief mention as part of a larger narrative…..

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As far as I recall, this was never the case, and I'm damn glad about it. For one thing pedophilia is illegal and covered quite comprehensively by rules number 3 and 4 and anything against these rules that still appears only does so on the basis that a moderator might not have seen it yet. Instead of starting a dogpile, it's surely better to report - especially given that unless anything has changed, it's generally standard procedure to hide posts that are under discussion for breaking the rules.

How many times have you seen an adult (usually over age 40) talk about enjoying children's sneezes? How is that not pedophilia? And it doesn't get warned or removed. There have been threads about this, too, and nothing has been done. Why isn't it okay to publicly shame something like this? Why is it cool to have our forum look like it enables pedophilia and other predatory behavior? At best, reporting gets the posts warned/hidden, but seriously, how much do those posters really learn from that?

OK, I hadn't even read this before, but then it got quoted, and now it cannot be unseen.

How many times have I seen an adult talk about enjoying children's sneezes?

Zero times, actually.

Of course that doesn't mean no one has ever done that. I don't read everything on this forum, because I'm not a mod and I only read what interests me.

But guess what? Enjoying children's (and you probably mean teenagers') sneezing still isn't the same as paedophilia. You are letting your fear and hate run away with you into dangerous territories, Sen Beret. Paedophilia is wanting and/or having sex with children. Do you want to have sex with anyone whose sneezes you enjoy? Well, neither do I. Neither does any of us, I'm willing to bet.

Paedophilia goes much, much further than what happens on this forum. Any form of paedophilia is an automatic violation of this forum's rules. If some of these violations go unnoticed by Staff, you report them. You do not bash Staff for "defending predators" because that is flat-out bullshit.

As for your other ridiculous question "Why isn't it okay to publicly shame something like this?"

Because it serves no other purpose than to make you and other sanctimonious witch-hunters feel better about yourselves. It won't make the ones you're publicly shaming change their behaviour; in fact it is likely to make them worse. You do no good with it whatsoever. THAT is why.

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I read most of this thread, but I'm afraid my will to live disappeared somewhere in the middle.

^yes that

Anyway. This is a tough topic for me at least because I too am into a particular subset of the fetish and I would totally get it if people are turned off by the whole ZOMG and then the sneeze blew over the house and frankly if I look at it from an external/objective POV I'm like... wtf that's SO profoundly bizarre. But also drawing from that example, there's ways to go about things. I'm really into the giant sneeze thing, I put effort into writing some stories about it and lo and behold I discover other folks who are attracted to the same things and we talk about it from time to time and boom! Like 10x more fetish content of my particular preference than there was beforehand because---not to toot my own horn or anything---I bothered to make some content that I put a little effort and time into out into internet land. (Side note: I am a little turned off by how I'm saying this bc it smacks of respectability politics/the bootstraps don't ask for what you need be a capitalist and put something out into the market; but like whatever this is weird subfetishes not like centuries of discrimination.) Frankly, I think if you are into a particular subset of fetish-land, that's the way to go about it. Because I have found at least for me personally, while I was pretty turned off by the handkerchief thing (or less the handkerchief thing and more, frankly, the snot thing), you read a couple good obs about it---or even more than that, become friends with some folks who are into it---and it becomes a total neutral, even if it's never going to be an aspect that I'm like super duper into. Same goes for pretty much anything weird about the fetish (for me, anyway).

Also another thought: I suspect the reason that people who are into weirder or less common aspects of the fetish may be more shark-ish is the special combination of entitlement and desperation that characterizes much of (male) sexuality. It's like how we have this conception of sexual stimulation as something that is "needed" rather than "wanted" (e.g., "I'm a man and men have needs"). And obviously a wider range of behavior is justified in the pursuit of something you need rather than something you want. So when people are in a situation where the only thing or the main thing that gets them off is something that there is little interest in or access to or just not much of that content period, they will consider it acceptable to, basically, behave badly in order to get it (or really, ignore other people's reactions/feelings in order to try to get it). But here's the deal: the way to get more of the thing you want isn't to constantly say "gimmie gimmie gimmie" regardless of how the other person is reacting. The solution, in my opinion/experience, is to provide the kind of content you're interested in seeing and lo and behold, more such content is inspired. I think that the kindest thing to say to people are shark-y over the sneeze smell thing (or whatever else). But that's for the folks like me who are neither attracted nor repulsed to do, not for the people who are trying to get the sharks off their tail to do. I think.

Anyway, it's tough because we have to acknowledge that some people are really genuinely repulsed by some aspects of the fetish and it can be really frustrating to have something that you really don't enjoy mixed with something you do. And "just don't look at it" isn't always an adequate solution. At the same time, if the sneeze fetish forum isn't welcoming to people who are attracted to any and all aspects of sneezing... what on earth place will be, you know? I think it's okay to acknowledge and validate both of those positions at the same time!

Oh and I for one don't give two shits about the way this place is run. Maybe that's bc it has only recently become a community for me rather than primarily a place to post, discover, and enjoy fetish content but like... I dunno are the forums working, is the search function useable, do posts come up on the chat? Yes? Then I'm good. But then, I'm pretty chill about 90% of things so.

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The "smelling sneezes" crowd is especially revolting, yes, and it honestly makes me sick to my stomach to think about it. But don't even get me STARTED on the people who routinely bring up their family members when talking about obs or whatever, I cannot even properly explain how fucking gross this is to me. People who post obs about their mom getting a cold, or will wax nostalgic about what huge nose-blowers their moms were, FUCKING MURDER ME UGH. QUIT GETTING TURNED ON BY YOUR IMMEDIATE FAMILY AND SHARING IT WITH US, CHRIST. I WILL SCREAM FOREVER ABOUT THIS.

Haha omg this. It's really really gross hearing people say nice things about their family members' sneezing

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Figured I'd pop in here and say that yeah smelling sneezes is completely gross and it's totally creepy to keep pushing for details when the poster is obviously uncomfortable, but the most revolting thing I've seen thus far (yes for me it surpasses obs about family members in grossness) is the very idea of posting an obs about someone who is ill/injured and you are supposed to be helping. Are there no longer HIPPA laws against this shit?! I'm a CNA at a nursing home I can't even say the name of the nursing home I work at because of HIPPA laws if I were to post an obs about a resident on here?? Holy jumping fucking bat shit you just don't DO some shit

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I vote that we re-name this topic "Basically We Are All A Bunch Of Assholes Just Like The Rest Of The Internet". It's comprehensive, applicable, and true.

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I'm curious as to why it's been felt necessary to bump up every damn thread in the Pit but hey ho twiddly dee.

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